New York Times Wants to Censor and Influence Bloggers?

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On Saturday, I posted about the New York Times and their coverage that same evening of the BlogHer 08 Conference in their online Fashion & Style section (The Sunday Styles section in the print version). I was particularly upset about where the paper placed the story and the overall tone of the article. I also wrote a brief letter to the editor that day that expressed my thoughts on the topic. You can read my post and my letter to the editor right here.

Yesterday, I got a phone call and an email from a New York Times editor in response to my letter, asking simply if I would please call her. So I did, about an hour later.

The contact is an editor for the Thursday and Sunday editions of the Times’ Styles section (known as the Fashion & Style section on the online version). She said she was contacting me because she wanted me to consider revising the letter I had written to the editor because they couldn’t publish it as it was. (She also mentioned that she had read my post and several others expressing similar criticism for the story and its placement).

So, naturally, I asked why. She said that my letter specifically criticized the placement of the story, which it did. But she went on to explain that the Times’ sections operate somewhat autonomously, and when one section gets a good story, they would never “give it away” to another section. She said that the section in which a story was placed was not something they “controlled”, but that it was based on which section editor got the story or whom the reporter chose to pitch.

Effectively, she told me that they wouldn’t publish my letter if it talked about the placement of the story since the section placement wasn’t “something [they] could respond to” and was something they “don’t have an answer for”. Instead, she suggested that if I framed my letter to focus instead on tone and content of the story itself, I could resubmit it to her directly for publication consideration.

What?

There’s a couple of big lessons to be learned here about proper outreach to your community, and how not to engage with bloggers.

Mistake #1
First of all, a letter to the editor is intended as an expression of opinion by the readership of a paper. A publication could reasonably edit a letter for length, but suggesting that content and intent of a letter be revised and resubmitted for the purposes of making it easier or more palatable to the paper isn’t reasonable (or ethical, in my view).

In this case, the Times didn’t want to publish my criticism of the editorial judgment because they would have then had to explain how and why stories get placed in specific sections. They also might have had to defend the content of their Style section and justify why it was a suitable place for the BlogHer story after all. So they’ve made my letter to the editor about what it does (or doesn’t do) for them, instead of about engaging and including the voice of their readers.

Lesson: When engage in dialogue with your community, you lose credibility and respect when you try to censor or influence that conversation just because you don’t like what’s being said.

Mistake #2
In our follow up correspondence after the phone call, the editor asked that, should I choose to blog again on this topic, I not reveal her name because she’s “not a higher-up in the section” and would “rather not be seen as speaking on behalf of the section in print.” However, her phone call to me was from her desk at the Times, and her email to me was from her New York Times email account. In both cases, she was clearly presenting herself as a representative of the paper whose duties, per her email to me, “include [responding] to letter writers.”

They say in journalism that nothing is ever truly off the record. The Times, however, via this editor, is asking to be exactly that.

Lesson: If you’re going to be a part of the conversation, be transparent. Own your viewpoint and speak as yourself. Otherwise, your community questions your motives and you lose their trust.

So what should they have done?

Here’s my take:

• Either chosen to publish my letter as it was, or chosen not to publish it as is their prerogative (after all, publication isn’t guaranteed). But never should their response have been to try and convince me to amend my opinion because they didn’t have a suitable response.

• Commented on my post. The editor mentioned that she’d read my blog post about it, and that gave her and the Times the perfect opportunity to engage in the conversation and contribute their perspective.

• Respected my stance rather than trying to influence it. They didn’t have to agree with me. But trying to get me to revise my letter to the editor or suggest how I should treat future blog posts tells me that they’d rather control the message than have a discussion.

Let me be clear that I think the Times, in theory, made the right move by reaching out to someone who is clearly speaking up about them, and to them. Engagement is much better than ignoring. But the question becomes what does more damage: Not responding at all, or responding and trying to influence a letter writer or blogger to amend their content?

I think the piece itself and the editor’s response to my letter underscores the lack of respect that the Times has for bloggers, their readers, and their influence within the larger media community. The overall tone of the exchange with the editor, while courteous and friendly on the surface, leads me to think that the Times not only wants to unduly influence the conversation, but that they might be taking this ill-advised approach with other bloggers, too.

This whole situation highlights an archaic and potentially damaging system that papers like the Times are using to determine where their stories run. I think they ought to be rethinking this for the sake of integrity.

So what do you think? How would you have reacted to such a request? Do you think the New York Times handled this correctly? If not, what should they have done differently and what are the lessons to be learned?

Photo by Anderson Mancini

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  • New York City’s Watchdog

    This is called “overreacting,” and it is becoming epidemic among bloggers.

    It begins in the headline. I don’t see where the NYT tried to “censor” the blog.
    -Texas Brian

    I believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out, just as the initial reaction about where the NYT placed the article to begin with was an overreaction considering that in all probability less than 1% of the BlogHer members can consider their blog a successful business, and BlogHer does not to my knowledge have any of the influential female tech bloggers on their rosters (where is Cali Lewis, Lorrelle VanFossen, or Skellie?). Your letter and blog post remain your words on your forum… they simply asked you to perhaps refocus on the substance of the article instead of something that really is trivial and petty.

    As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?

    I tend to think the NYT, whether they knew it or not, put that article exactly where it belonged.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    This is called “overreacting,” and it is becoming epidemic among bloggers.It begins in the headline. I don’t see where the NYT tried to “censor” the blog.-Texas BrianI believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out, just as the initial reaction about where the NYT placed the article to begin with was an overreaction considering that in all probability less than 1% of the BlogHer members can consider their blog a successful business, and BlogHer does not to my knowledge have any of the influential female tech bloggers on their rosters (where is Cali Lewis, Lorrelle VanFossen, or Skellie?). Your letter and blog post remain your words on your forum… they simply asked you to perhaps refocus on the substance of the article instead of something that really is trivial and petty.As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?I tend to think the NYT, whether they knew it or not, put that article exactly where it belonged.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    This is called “overreacting,” and it is becoming epidemic among bloggers.It begins in the headline. I don’t see where the NYT tried to “censor” the blog.-Texas BrianI believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out, just as the initial reaction about where the NYT placed the article to begin with was an overreaction considering that in all probability less than 1% of the BlogHer members can consider their blog a successful business, and BlogHer does not to my knowledge have any of the influential female tech bloggers on their rosters (where is Cali Lewis, Lorrelle VanFossen, or Skellie?). Your letter and blog post remain your words on your forum… they simply asked you to perhaps refocus on the substance of the article instead of something that really is trivial and petty.As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?I tend to think the NYT, whether they knew it or not, put that article exactly where it belonged.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    This is called “overreacting,” and it is becoming epidemic among bloggers.It begins in the headline. I don’t see where the NYT tried to “censor” the blog.-Texas BrianI believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out, just as the initial reaction about where the NYT placed the article to begin with was an overreaction considering that in all probability less than 1% of the BlogHer members can consider their blog a successful business, and BlogHer does not to my knowledge have any of the influential female tech bloggers on their rosters (where is Cali Lewis, Lorrelle VanFossen, or Skellie?). Your letter and blog post remain your words on your forum… they simply asked you to perhaps refocus on the substance of the article instead of something that really is trivial and petty.As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?I tend to think the NYT, whether they knew it or not, put that article exactly where it belonged.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    This is called “overreacting,” and it is becoming epidemic among bloggers.It begins in the headline. I don’t see where the NYT tried to “censor” the blog.-Texas BrianI believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out, just as the initial reaction about where the NYT placed the article to begin with was an overreaction considering that in all probability less than 1% of the BlogHer members can consider their blog a successful business, and BlogHer does not to my knowledge have any of the influential female tech bloggers on their rosters (where is Cali Lewis, Lorrelle VanFossen, or Skellie?). Your letter and blog post remain your words on your forum… they simply asked you to perhaps refocus on the substance of the article instead of something that really is trivial and petty.As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?I tend to think the NYT, whether they knew it or not, put that article exactly where it belonged.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    This is called “overreacting,” and it is becoming epidemic among bloggers.It begins in the headline. I don’t see where the NYT tried to “censor” the blog.-Texas BrianI believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out, just as the initial reaction about where the NYT placed the article to begin with was an overreaction considering that in all probability less than 1% of the BlogHer members can consider their blog a successful business, and BlogHer does not to my knowledge have any of the influential female tech bloggers on their rosters (where is Cali Lewis, Lorrelle VanFossen, or Skellie?). Your letter and blog post remain your words on your forum… they simply asked you to perhaps refocus on the substance of the article instead of something that really is trivial and petty.As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?I tend to think the NYT, whether they knew it or not, put that article exactly where it belonged.

  • Beth Harte

    Amber, great post! What Amber’s post does best is bring to light the archaic nature in which the newspaper industry still operates. Will it change overnight, no. But it will need to adapt eventually. We are the consumers of the NYT and we have a voice now and the NYT tried to control that voice.

  • Beth Harte

    Amber, great post! What Amber’s post does best is bring to light the archaic nature in which the newspaper industry still operates. Will it change overnight, no. But it will need to adapt eventually. We are the consumers of the NYT and we have a voice now and the NYT tried to control that voice.

  • JudyBright

    It’s not like manipulating facts is anything new to the Times.

    And they could have responded to you; it’s just that the truth would make them look horrible.

  • JudyBright

    It’s not like manipulating facts is anything new to the Times.And they could have responded to you; it’s just that the truth would make them look horrible.

  • Mack Collier

    “I believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out”

    Apologies, I need to go clean Dr Pepper off my laptop screen.

  • Mack Collier

    “I believe Texas Brian hit it on the head. This is an overreaction to “old media” reaching out”Apologies, I need to go clean Dr Pepper off my laptop screen.

  • Amber Naslund

    All – wow! Thanks for the comments. Some great stuff in here, on both sides of the argument.

    I will say that vitriol is the last thing I put into this post. I find it actually a bit funny that I’m supposed to be eternally grateful that *The* New York Times took time to respond to me. Yep, I’m just some blogger out there in the vast sea, this is true. And you can agree or disagree with my POV, and I think that’s great. And I acknowledged that reaching out on their part was a great thing to do.

    If the journalist had time to read my post and spend 40 minutes on the phone with me justifying her placement, she had time to justify it on my blog where others could respond too. I don’t consider that a favor, by any stretch, nor a waste of time.

    The rules of the game are changing, people. I may just be one person – one blogger, one letter writer – but that’s not the point. The point is that traditional media wants everyone else to always play in their sandbox, by their rules alone.

    The fact that they wanted to not focus on the “machinations of the newsroom” is exactly the point. They didn’t have an answer, so they didn’t want it brought up. I didn’t write my letter to “appeal to an audience”. I wrote it to bring to light what I think is poor editorial judgment, whether that focuses on their management policies or not. And so I chose not to alter it based on their recommendations, because it undermines exactly the issue I was trying to point out.

    I appreciate all of you taking the time to share your thoughts on the issue. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

  • Amber Naslund

    All – wow! Thanks for the comments. Some great stuff in here, on both sides of the argument.I will say that vitriol is the last thing I put into this post. I find it actually a bit funny that I’m supposed to be eternally grateful that *The* New York Times took time to respond to me. Yep, I’m just some blogger out there in the vast sea, this is true. And you can agree or disagree with my POV, and I think that’s great. And I acknowledged that reaching out on their part was a great thing to do. If the journalist had time to read my post and spend 40 minutes on the phone with me justifying her placement, she had time to justify it on my blog where others could respond too. I don’t consider that a favor, by any stretch, nor a waste of time.The rules of the game are changing, people. I may just be one person – one blogger, one letter writer – but that’s not the point. The point is that traditional media wants everyone else to always play in their sandbox, by their rules alone. The fact that they wanted to not focus on the “machinations of the newsroom” is exactly the point. They didn’t have an answer, so they didn’t want it brought up. I didn’t write my letter to “appeal to an audience”. I wrote it to bring to light what I think is poor editorial judgment, whether that focuses on their management policies or not. And so I chose not to alter it based on their recommendations, because it undermines exactly the issue I was trying to point out.I appreciate all of you taking the time to share your thoughts on the issue. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

  • Erika

    Amber, I don’t see (or read) any vitriol in your posts or criticism of the NYT’s tactics. The way the game is played *is* changing, but even if it weren’t, asking you to revised and resubmit a LTE is neither standard practice nor acceptable. Teeg makes a great point about a blogger asking a commenter to change their comment because it didn’t match the “tone” of the blog.

    If it is about engagement and communication (and once, LTE’s were the only way that readers could directly respond to the press)then the request for a revision smacks of censorship and falls outside of the guidelines of editing for (objectional)content or length (for space) as many LTEs are. While the ed who contacted you did “object” to the tone of the letter, it’s not in the realm of the “classic list” of objectional content.

  • Erika

    Amber, I don’t see (or read) any vitriol in your posts or criticism of the NYT’s tactics. The way the game is played *is* changing, but even if it weren’t, asking you to revised and resubmit a LTE is neither standard practice nor acceptable. Teeg makes a great point about a blogger asking a commenter to change their comment because it didn’t match the “tone” of the blog. If it is about engagement and communication (and once, LTE’s were the only way that readers could directly respond to the press)then the request for a revision smacks of censorship and falls outside of the guidelines of editing for (objectional)content or length (for space) as many LTEs are. While the ed who contacted you did “object” to the tone of the letter, it’s not in the realm of the “classic list” of objectional content.

  • Lightfinger

    I read the New York Times article, and I felt is was a very poor article in the first place, irregardless to the position in the paper it occupied.

    It was like going to E3, but only focusing on the 10% of the people in costume (if that much), and trying to paint the entire convention as a bunch of people who cosplay.

    Because it was not an article which shows female bloggers gaining momentum (and added to the study released recently showing more women than men are on social networking sites), but portrayed female bloggers as being courted by Gucci. In a fashion section of the paper, this is appropriate. Thus, I feel there should have been two articles. The first about female bloggers and their accomplishments, and a second about the ‘dealer’s room’ that was presented at BlogHer.

    And to those of you claiming that Amber should be ‘honored’ by the Times, I’m sorry. That time has passed. The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

  • Lightfinger

    I read the New York Times article, and I felt is was a very poor article in the first place, irregardless to the position in the paper it occupied.It was like going to E3, but only focusing on the 10% of the people in costume (if that much), and trying to paint the entire convention as a bunch of people who cosplay.Because it was not an article which shows female bloggers gaining momentum (and added to the study released recently showing more women than men are on social networking sites), but portrayed female bloggers as being courted by Gucci. In a fashion section of the paper, this is appropriate. Thus, I feel there should have been two articles. The first about female bloggers and their accomplishments, and a second about the ‘dealer’s room’ that was presented at BlogHer. And to those of you claiming that Amber should be ‘honored’ by the Times, I’m sorry. That time has passed. The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

    Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

    Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

    Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

    Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.

    Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    The Times should be honored to be mentioned by Amber.Now I’m the one cleaning Mr. Pibbs off my laptop screen.

  • Temple Stark

    This is why I like blogs over SM on important subjects. The issues are laid out much more clearly with a bit of room to type.

    For instance, I did not realize the request to have her name not used came in a follow-up e-mail. That to me describes laying the groundwork after the building is already erected so to speak. Good .. heck even mediocre .. editors / journalists know to set the rules beforehand.

    As such it is much more a judgment call as to whether it’s worth it, but your justification for using her name is much stronger. If how it’s laid out here is correct, of which I have no reason to doubt, the “rules of the conversation” should have come first IMHO.


    I don’t get this idea people keep repeating about this isn’t the way to communicate “with a blogger” or “especially a blogger.” A blogger is a reader is a member of the public. In society, some as has always been, have greater broadcast power, some can’t be heard.

    As it relates to this, it doesn’t seem the “blogger” part of the equation has any relevance at all.


    Amber said as a lesson to learn from this: “When engage in dialogue with your community, you lose credibility and respect when you try to censor or influence that conversation just because you don’t like what’s being said.”

    I can’t agree that trying to influence what was being said loses you credibility or respect. Because to agree to that I would have to disagree with Amber’s effort to influence the tone of this or future articles on BlogHer and their placement. Which I don’t at all.

    Too, I would further have to criticize this post as continuing to try and influence.

    As a slight, incomplete, aside, isn’t that a big chunk of what PR is all about? That’s not saying good or bad, just, isn’t it?


    It’s unclear to me whether this story actually made it to the printed paper by the way.


    I especially enjoy the tone of this piece, because it is much more nuanced and, yes, generally respectful, then it sounded like it was going to be. There are certainly some things people / institutions do that are wrong. But they come in degrees of “wrongness.” Fundamentally this comes down to a disagreement over where the story went in the paper, yet no “that’s cool” for putting it in the paper at all.

    The Style section to me means trends / what’s next, though obviously it was different in the past.

    The perception here, I believe, is at the root of the overall problem / discussion.

    Thank you for writing this Amber.
    Temple

  • Temple Stark

    This is why I like blogs over SM on important subjects. The issues are laid out much more clearly with a bit of room to type.For instance, I did not realize the request to have her name not used came in a follow-up e-mail. That to me describes laying the groundwork after the building is already erected so to speak. Good .. heck even mediocre .. editors / journalists know to set the rules beforehand.As such it is much more a judgment call as to whether it’s worth it, but your justification for using her name is much stronger. If how it’s laid out here is correct, of which I have no reason to doubt, the “rules of the conversation” should have come first IMHO.—I don’t get this idea people keep repeating about this isn’t the way to communicate “with a blogger” or “especially a blogger.” A blogger is a reader is a member of the public. In society, some as has always been, have greater broadcast power, some can’t be heard.As it relates to this, it doesn’t seem the “blogger” part of the equation has any relevance at all.—Amber said as a lesson to learn from this: “When engage in dialogue with your community, you lose credibility and respect when you try to censor or influence that conversation just because you don’t like what’s being said.”I can’t agree that trying to influence what was being said loses you credibility or respect. Because to agree to that I would have to disagree with Amber’s effort to influence the tone of this or future articles on BlogHer and their placement. Which I don’t at all.Too, I would further have to criticize this post as continuing to try and influence.As a slight, incomplete, aside, isn’t that a big chunk of what PR is all about? That’s not saying good or bad, just, isn’t it?—It’s unclear to me whether this story actually made it to the printed paper by the way.—I especially enjoy the tone of this piece, because it is much more nuanced and, yes, generally respectful, then it sounded like it was going to be. There are certainly some things people / institutions do that are wrong. But they come in degrees of “wrongness.” Fundamentally this comes down to a disagreement over where the story went in the paper, yet no “that’s cool” for putting it in the paper at all.The Style section to me means trends / what’s next, though obviously it was different in the past.The perception here, I believe, is at the root of the overall problem / discussion.Thank you for writing this Amber.Temple

  • TexasBrian

    Not quite time to clean the screen, but it’s getting there. I think the problem this time comes in the ego-check department in the concept of “new media.”

    I think somewhere along the way, it got accepted that anyone with a blog is a “journalist.” Someone earlier even mentioned that the NYT editor was talking “journalist to journalist.”

    My 14-yeear-old niece likes to blog about her iPod. Is she a journalist?

    I have a journalism degree, but I don’t work for any media outlet. Am I a journalist?

    This idea that a newspaper should engage in any sandbox other than their own is ludicrous. Create as many blogs as you like, create your own domain — heck, create your own print product. And then expect a major daily to spend time responding to it? Seriously?

    The notion that anyone with a keyboard and a blogspace is now on equal footing with the NYT is really ballsy, to say the least. To get that footing, I would say you have to get there the old fashioned way — you have to earn it.

    Traditional print media may be dying, but it’s not dead yet, and it’s not about to be replaced by someone in Topeka with a Dell laptop and Blogspot. Sorry. There’s work to be done, and it begins with a fundamental understanding of how the process works. If anything, I hope Amber took away an understanding of how the sectioning process works (i.e. how the story was placed) and not just sour grapes because the story didn’t get placed where she wanted it. I trust she did.

    P.S. “Vitriol” might not have been the best word choice, but creating an epically long post about the unhappiness you experienced complete with calls to action for “fixing” their “mistakes” doesn’t sound like roses and sunshine to me.

  • TexasBrian

    Not quite time to clean the screen, but it’s getting there. I think the problem this time comes in the ego-check department in the concept of “new media.”I think somewhere along the way, it got accepted that anyone with a blog is a “journalist.” Someone earlier even mentioned that the NYT editor was talking “journalist to journalist.”My 14-yeear-old niece likes to blog about her iPod. Is she a journalist?I have a journalism degree, but I don’t work for any media outlet. Am I a journalist?This idea that a newspaper should engage in any sandbox other than their own is ludicrous. Create as many blogs as you like, create your own domain — heck, create your own print product. And then expect a major daily to spend time responding to it? Seriously?The notion that anyone with a keyboard and a blogspace is now on equal footing with the NYT is really ballsy, to say the least. To get that footing, I would say you have to get there the old fashioned way — you have to earn it.Traditional print media may be dying, but it’s not dead yet, and it’s not about to be replaced by someone in Topeka with a Dell laptop and Blogspot. Sorry. There’s work to be done, and it begins with a fundamental understanding of how the process works. If anything, I hope Amber took away an understanding of how the sectioning process works (i.e. how the story was placed) and not just sour grapes because the story didn’t get placed where she wanted it. I trust she did.P.S. “Vitriol” might not have been the best word choice, but creating an epically long post about the unhappiness you experienced complete with calls to action for “fixing” their “mistakes” doesn’t sound like roses and sunshine to me.

  • Amber Naslund

    Couple points to clarify @texasbrian:

    It’s not about where *I* wanted the story personally. There’s been a great deal of feedback from the participants themselves and the community at large about the placement. This isn’t about me, I’m just adding my voice. You can demean my place as a blogger all you like. I’m just adding to the conversation just like you are.

    @Templestark you bring up a very good point about influence, so let me clarify a bit. No, inherently I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the practice of influence, depending on it’s endgame. it’s the essence of marketing, communications, and social media too. What I didn’t like was the undercurrent that read (to me) like they were saying sure, your view matters, but only if we like what we read. So I’m actually very appreciative of the NYT adding their perspective, and I told the editor so both on the phone and in writing. I still don’t agree with how they handled it, because I think there’s a difference between influence intended to promote thinking and discussion, and influence intended to stifle and dictate. The road to hell…

    And I’ll go on record as saying very clearly that I *do* give the NYT a “that’s cool” for running the piece in the first place. It’d be hypocritical to say that we need more and better attention for how people of all stripes are changing the landscape of communications and then skewer someone for running a story at all. BlogHer deserves coverage, and I’m grateful that they got it. But I don’t subscribe to the philosophy that all press is good press.

    And there’s no generalization intended here. Not all traditional media is evil. Newspapers don’t all suck, and they don’t always get it wrong. Not every editor is misguided. I used this as a very specific and singular example, not a blanket statement. Just like blanket statements that lump bloggers into a pile of geeks with laptops. Communication and social media are not remotely black and white, and I for one am grateful to be participating in the sea change, wherever it may take us.

  • Amber Naslund

    Couple points to clarify @texasbrian:It’s not about where *I* wanted the story personally. There’s been a great deal of feedback from the participants themselves and the community at large about the placement. This isn’t about me, I’m just adding my voice. You can demean my place as a blogger all you like. I’m just adding to the conversation just like you are.@Templestark you bring up a very good point about influence, so let me clarify a bit. No, inherently I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the practice of influence, depending on it’s endgame. it’s the essence of marketing, communications, and social media too. What I didn’t like was the undercurrent that read (to me) like they were saying sure, your view matters, but only if we like what we read. So I’m actually very appreciative of the NYT adding their perspective, and I told the editor so both on the phone and in writing. I still don’t agree with how they handled it, because I think there’s a difference between influence intended to promote thinking and discussion, and influence intended to stifle and dictate. The road to hell…And I’ll go on record as saying very clearly that I *do* give the NYT a “that’s cool” for running the piece in the first place. It’d be hypocritical to say that we need more and better attention for how people of all stripes are changing the landscape of communications and then skewer someone for running a story at all. BlogHer deserves coverage, and I’m grateful that they got it. But I don’t subscribe to the philosophy that all press is good press.And there’s no generalization intended here. Not all traditional media is evil. Newspapers don’t all suck, and they don’t always get it wrong. Not every editor is misguided. I used this as a very specific and singular example, not a blanket statement. Just like blanket statements that lump bloggers into a pile of geeks with laptops. Communication and social media are not remotely black and white, and I for one am grateful to be participating in the sea change, wherever it may take us.

  • Mack Collier

    “Not quite time to clean the screen, but it’s getting there. I think the problem this time comes in the ego-check department in the concept of “new media.”"

    Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.

    “The notion that anyone with a keyboard and a blogspace is now on equal footing with the NYT is really ballsy, to say the least.”

    Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.

    “P.S. “Vitriol” might not have been the best word choice, but creating an epically long post about the unhappiness you experienced complete with calls to action for “fixing” their “mistakes” doesn’t sound like roses and sunshine to me.”

    IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?

    BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.

    “Traditional print media may be dying, but it’s not dead yet, and it’s not about to be replaced by someone in Topeka with a Dell laptop and Blogspot. Sorry.”

    And social media isn’t a fad, and isn’t going anywhere. No matter how much old media and its advocates may want to think/hope otherwise.

    Sorry.

  • Mack Collier

    “Not quite time to clean the screen, but it’s getting there. I think the problem this time comes in the ego-check department in the concept of “new media.”"Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door. “The notion that anyone with a keyboard and a blogspace is now on equal footing with the NYT is really ballsy, to say the least.”Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business. “P.S. “Vitriol” might not have been the best word choice, but creating an epically long post about the unhappiness you experienced complete with calls to action for “fixing” their “mistakes” doesn’t sound like roses and sunshine to me.”IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice. “Traditional print media may be dying, but it’s not dead yet, and it’s not about to be replaced by someone in Topeka with a Dell laptop and Blogspot. Sorry.”And social media isn’t a fad, and isn’t going anywhere. No matter how much old media and its advocates may want to think/hope otherwise.Sorry.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark Collier

    Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.

    Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.

    Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.

    I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.

    IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?

    BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.

    Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.

    As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.

    I think, she needs to heed her own advice:

    Engagement is much better than ignoring.

    The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:

    As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?

    It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.

    On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark Collier

    Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.

    Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.

    Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.

    I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.

    IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?

    BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.

    Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.

    As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.

    I think, she needs to heed her own advice:

    Engagement is much better than ignoring.

    The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:

    As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?

    It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.

    On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark Collier

    Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.

    Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.

    Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.

    I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.

    IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?

    BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.

    Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.

    As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.

    I think, she needs to heed her own advice:

    Engagement is much better than ignoring.

    The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:

    As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?

    It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.

    On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark Collier

    Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.

    Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.

    Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.

    I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.

    IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?

    BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.

    Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.

    As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.

    I think, she needs to heed her own advice:

    Engagement is much better than ignoring.

    The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:

    As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?

    It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.

    On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark Collier

    Funny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.

    Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.

    Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.

    I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.

    IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?

    BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.

    Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.

    As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.

    I think, she needs to heed her own advice:

    Engagement is much better than ignoring.

    The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:

    As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?

    It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.

    On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark CollierFunny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.I think, she needs to heed her own advice:Engagement is much better than ignoring.The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark CollierFunny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.I think, she needs to heed her own advice:Engagement is much better than ignoring.The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark CollierFunny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.I think, she needs to heed her own advice:Engagement is much better than ignoring.The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark CollierFunny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.I think, she needs to heed her own advice:Engagement is much better than ignoring.The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • New York City’s Watchdog

    @Mark CollierFunny, sounds to me like the problem is some people forgetting to check their agendas at the door.Once you decide that blogging is your business, you then work to brand yourself, and that is when you now have an agenda. Randomly reviewing blogs is not only an agenda, but egotistical and arrogant… which you happen to be guilty of.Case in point, no one said that any blogger is equal or better than the NYT. The point is, bloggers as a GROUP should not be ignored or talked down to. It’s just bad business.I missed where bloggers as a GROUP were ignored. They were in fact featured. I also missed the part where the GROUP was talked down to.IOW, how dare a lowly blogger imply that they know how to better run their business than the bad old (media) NYT?BTW, Amber was spot-on in her evaluation, and if the NYT has a lick of sense, they’ll heed her advice.Actually, the lowly blogger can imply all that they want. The fact is the NYT piece was a positive eye opener for most, and this type of post does not serve to further bloggers. It serves to discredit us by a supposed professional regurgitating the same advice from 1997.As for them heeding her advice, the NYT Editor did indeed reply to a properly formatted request, as opposed to a submission to the Op-Ed Letters to the Editor section. In fact, he went into quite a bit of detail to educate the masses as to both how the article ended up in that section, and what the section actually contains.I think, she needs to heed her own advice:Engagement is much better than ignoring.The majority of the dissending comments in this post have been ignored. So I will repeat my initial question:As for the NYT trying to influence bloggers… did they give bloggers a $500 gift card to their new line of home furnishings the same way that JCPenney did for 20 members of BlogHer? Is the NYT really wrong for placing them in the Style & Fashion section as you claim?It seems Amanda is guilty of the very thing she accuses the NYT of doing… it’s something she doesn’t have an answer for.On a final note, regarding Social Media, I don’t think anyone says its a fad or that it isn’t going somewhere. The truth is, it is going into the future… but at some point the truth that content is not king and presentation matters will reveal itself. Being on Blogspot is not a sign of being serious about what your doing. It is a sign of a glorified hobbyist.

  • evano

    Good article, and I agree with your point that the NYT and mainstream media in general need to learn how to deal with this new era of two-way media. However, I’m not sure that your approach to the situation was the best one possible. You missed an opportunity to communicate by allowing yourself to become insulted, and you let that editor walk away with the impression that making your point was more important to you than having a conversation.

    First of all, this editor was not the person who made the decision on where to place the article. In the same way that in a bank branch everyone who isn’t a teller is a Vice President, in the newsroom pretty much anyone who isn’t a reporter is an editor. Take a look at the Times’ masthead (which is not the nameplate or banner which says “The New York Times” on the front page, but the listing of the people responsible for the paper.) There are many many layers of editors: executive editors, managing editors, deputy managing editors, assistant managing editors, section editors, assistant section editors, copy editors, etc. And that’s for the print version. The online version has its own masthead and hierarchy, where the guy in charge of the whole thing is only an Associate Managing Editor in the Times hierarchy. The editor you spoke to and stood your ground with was not anyone with the power to do anything more than her job. She might have agreed with your point when she asked you to edit your letter — someone agreed with it enough to propose that it be a representative of the large number of letters they received on the article. Do you think that when she hung up with you, she still felt positive about that choice?

    Second, your address here is “thebrandbox.blogspot.com”. If someone wrote an email to you complaining that an article on your site really belonged on “smithereens.blogspot.com”, would that be a relevant comment? Would it be anything you had any control over? (A Plurk from Daniel is what brought me here.) You probably would think that the two blogs have nothing in common except for the domain. That's a given for you and anyone else familiar with the blogging environment, just the same as the rigid division between sections is a simple matter of fact in the operations of a large newspaper. If you even bothered to respond to the person who made the complaint about the article placement on the "wrong" blog, would your opinion of that person change if they refused to acknowledge the facts?

    Third, you're a good writer. Your writing on their site would have been an opportunity to reach a very different audience — most likely a larger audience. While you might not have been permitted to directly criticize the placement of the article on BlogHer in the Fashion & Style section, I believe that a skilled writer such as yourself could have expressed the point in such a way that a thoughtful reader of the letter would come away with the conclusion you intended.

    Finally, if your criticism of the placement of the article was your only criticism and you chose to pursue it, you could have asked her who at the Times you could contact directly to make yourself heard. She may have suggested the Public Editor, as another commenter suggested. Or she may have suggested you contact the Executive Editor or the Managing Editor, or even the Publisher. You still can.

  • evano

    Good article, and I agree with your point that the NYT and mainstream media in general need to learn how to deal with this new era of two-way media. However, I’m not sure that your approach to the situation was the best one possible. You missed an opportunity to communicate by allowing yourself to become insulted, and you let that editor walk away with the impression that making your point was more important to you than having a conversation.First of all, this editor was not the person who made the decision on where to place the article. In the same way that in a bank branch everyone who isn’t a teller is a Vice President, in the newsroom pretty much anyone who isn’t a reporter is an editor. Take a look at the Times’ masthead (which is not the nameplate or banner which says “The New York Times” on the front page, but the listing of the people responsible for the paper.) There are many many layers of editors: executive editors, managing editors, deputy managing editors, assistant managing editors, section editors, assistant section editors, copy editors, etc. And that’s for the print version. The online version has its own masthead and hierarchy, where the guy in charge of the whole thing is only an Associate Managing Editor in the Times hierarchy. The editor you spoke to and stood your ground with was not anyone with the power to do anything more than her job. She might have agreed with your point when she asked you to edit your letter — someone agreed with it enough to propose that it be a representative of the large number of letters they received on the article. Do you think that when she hung up with you, she still felt positive about that choice?Second, your address here is “thebrandbox.blogspot.com”. If someone wrote an email to you complaining that an article on your site really belonged on “smithereens.blogspot.com”, would that be a relevant comment? Would it be anything you had any control over? (A Plurk from Daniel is what brought me here.) You probably would think that the two blogs have nothing in common except for the domain. That's a given for you and anyone else familiar with the blogging environment, just the same as the rigid division between sections is a simple matter of fact in the operations of a large newspaper. If you even bothered to respond to the person who made the complaint about the article placement on the "wrong" blog, would your opinion of that person change if they refused to acknowledge the facts?Third, you're a good writer. Your writing on their site would have been an opportunity to reach a very different audience — most likely a larger audience. While you might not have been permitted to directly criticize the placement of the article on BlogHer in the Fashion & Style section, I believe that a skilled writer such as yourself could have expressed the point in such a way that a thoughtful reader of the letter would come away with the conclusion you intended.Finally, if your criticism of the placement of the article was your only criticism and you chose to pursue it, you could have asked her who at the Times you could contact directly to make yourself heard. She may have suggested the Public Editor, as another commenter suggested. Or she may have suggested you contact the Executive Editor or the Managing Editor, or even the Publisher. You still can.

  • Amber

    @evano you make some solid points. Let me clarify that in no way did I slam the door (or the phone, rather) on the editor. We had a very polite and rather extensive exchange, and the fact that I disagree with her approach doesn’t change that. I understand she has a job she’s trying to do as best as she can, but my opinion in this case is that she did it poorly. Whether they have layers and layers of people or not isn’t the issue here. She was the one that responded, so I in turn am speaking directly to that. And if it begs the question of who and how those kinds of questions are handled, perhaps that’s a separate issue. Not suggesting that I warrant the direct attention of the editor in chief, but if it puts this person in the unenviable position of being able to reach out but not suggest a solution other than changing my letter, that’s disappointing.

    And I absolutely left the door open to her for further discussion, thanked her for her viewpoints, and haven’t yet ruled out the possibility of alternative channels. In fact, if I were her, I might have been the one to suggest the alternatives you pointed out in order to encourage me to explore other avenues. (She didn’t).

    And I’m not at all disputing the *facts* of the operations of the paper. I get it. My point is that those operations are flawed in the first place, and that’s the thought that I shared with the editor. I still don’t like the idea that because it’s just “the way it is”, I shouldn’t be able to challenge that specific point in an open letter. I appreciate their interest in including my voice, but not if it’s merely a message that makes it easier for them to respond. It’s still their prerogative whether to publish the letter or not, I just took issue with the suggestion that I massage the letter to be “more publishable” because that waters down the point I was trying to illuminate in the first place.

    I appreciate the compliment on my writing, and thank you for adding your articulate perspective to the discussion.

  • Amber

    @evano you make some solid points. Let me clarify that in no way did I slam the door (or the phone, rather) on the editor. We had a very polite and rather extensive exchange, and the fact that I disagree with her approach doesn’t change that. I understand she has a job she’s trying to do as best as she can, but my opinion in this case is that she did it poorly. Whether they have layers and layers of people or not isn’t the issue here. She was the one that responded, so I in turn am speaking directly to that. And if it begs the question of who and how those kinds of questions are handled, perhaps that’s a separate issue. Not suggesting that I warrant the direct attention of the editor in chief, but if it puts this person in the unenviable position of being able to reach out but not suggest a solution other than changing my letter, that’s disappointing.And I absolutely left the door open to her for further discussion, thanked her for her viewpoints, and haven’t yet ruled out the possibility of alternative channels. In fact, if I were her, I might have been the one to suggest the alternatives you pointed out in order to encourage me to explore other avenues. (She didn’t).And I’m not at all disputing the *facts* of the operations of the paper. I get it. My point is that those operations are flawed in the first place, and that’s the thought that I shared with the editor. I still don’t like the idea that because it’s just “the way it is”, I shouldn’t be able to challenge that specific point in an open letter. I appreciate their interest in including my voice, but not if it’s merely a message that makes it easier for them to respond. It’s still their prerogative whether to publish the letter or not, I just took issue with the suggestion that I massage the letter to be “more publishable” because that waters down the point I was trying to illuminate in the first place.I appreciate the compliment on my writing, and thank you for adding your articulate perspective to the discussion.